Sooooooooooo..... i picked up a warn m12000. with the intent to put it on the front of my 17 ram 3500. then i got a westin winch tray for free that fits the ram. the m12000 doesnt fit into the tray. so i was lookin at other winch brands because im cheap. i can sell the m12000 for a good profit. buy a midsize frame winch that fits in the plate i have. and have cash leftover. so the question is have you owned a smittybuilt, or superwinch or any other off brand winch? ive only ever had warn or ramsey. and on the front of my tow rig it will see very little use. that why im considering it.